How the conflict in Iran is testing the U.S.-European alliance

11 hours ago 2

NPR's Mary Louise Kelly speaks with correspondents Greg Myre and Rob Schmitz about how the Iran war is affecting the U.S. alliance with Europe.

MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:

Could the U.S. be edging closer to a deal with Iran? This afternoon, as President Trump left for Las Vegas, he suggested Iran was willing to make an agreement on one of the biggest sticking points between the two countries.

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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We have a statement - very, very powerful statement that they will not have - beyond 20 years - that they will not have nuclear weapons.

KELLY: Now, Iran insists it has never tried to build a nuclear weapon and never will. Even if the U.S.-Israel war with Iran comes to an end, the damage extends beyond the Middle East. The conflict has severely strained U.S. relations with Europe, something I talked about on NPR's weekly national security podcast, Sources & Methods. Joining me this week, NPR national security correspondent Greg Myre and Berlin correspondent Rob Schmitz.

President Trump, once again, this week threatening to leave NATO. He wrote on Truth Social, quote, "NATO wasn't there for us, and they won't be there for us in the future." And he was talking about allies not racing to help the U.S. secure the Strait of Hormuz. So start there with how or whether the war in Iran seems to be deepening the breakup, deepening the fissures between Europe and the U.S.

ROB SCHMITZ, BYLINE: It's been a really difficult year for the trans-Atlantic relationship. You know, the Trump administration earlier in the year, threatened to seize Greenland, a territory of Denmark, a NATO member, a member of the European Union. I mean, this is really - this is serious stuff.

KELLY: In Germany, where are you based, how are people talking about this?

SCHMITZ: Oh, they're disgusted by this. And they're very angry about it. And I'm not...

KELLY: See, and when you say disgusted, feeling - I mean, explain that.

SCHMITZ: Disgusted by the idea that an ally like the United States is threatening to seize a part of Europe and...

KELLY: Greenland, we're talking about.

SCHMITZ: Greenland.

KELLY: Yeah.

SCHMITZ: And I think that this transcends political parties, as well. When you talk to folks in the far right - I mean, I've recently visited Poland and was speaking to far-right politicians who were also very angry with the Trump administration for doing what they did in Venezuela and taking away, you know, a leader of a country, like they did with Maduro.

KELLY: Well, and I guess the interesting thing is, you know, there was the whole crisis over Greenland, which then got walked back from the edge of the cliff.

SCHMITZ: That's right.

KELLY: And then the Iran war seemed to rush in and just reignite all of these differences...

SCHMITZ: Yeah.

KELLY: ...Between NATO and the U.S., Europe and the U.S - America's oldest allies in America.

SCHMITZ: Well, yeah. And I think that, you know, you and I saw Chancellor Friedrich Merz's speech at Munich. And the overriding theme of his speech is that, you know, this is over. We need to find new paths forward. We need to build our militaries here in Europe so that we can stand on our own two feet, and we can stand up to this.

And, you know, he's serious about this. I mean, Europe's largest economy, Germany, is now going full steam ahead at rebuilding its military. It is transforming its industry. Many auto parts factories are now making drones and military hardware. So we're seeing this not only on a political level, but we're also seeing this on a social as well as an economic level inside of Germany.

KELLY: I mean, Greg, it's not just Germany. Just to note, British Prime Minister Keir Starmer says Britain will not support the blockade of Iranian ports and ships. The U.K. will not send warships to help secure the Strait of Hormuz. And I mean, it's a whole list of America's historic allies.

GREG MYRE, BYLINE: Oh, yeah. And the way that this has - to openly criticize is what I mean. President Trump failed to consult with the European allies before the war, and now he's actively insulting the allies. And I mean, it's a combination of things. It's the political friction that we've seen. And there's also an issue of capabilities. A lot of the European countries - Germany, Britain, France - they haven't fought in major wars since World War II. So they haven't really needed those levels of capabilities in terms of what the U.S. can do - in terms of intelligence and logistics. Those countries just don't have it.

KELLY: Although, are we starting to see any allies show a little bit more willingness to maybe get involved now that there is a ceasefire, which is - however messy - is holding?

MYRE: You know, there have been a few things going on behind the scenes. The U.S. has been able to use a lot of European air bases because the amount of stuff the U.S. military has brought into the Middle East didn't just get there by magic. But you compare it to the other - since the U.S. now has a long list of Middle East wars it's fought, the level of cooperation we saw back in those earlier wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, the '91 Gulf War, where there was a real coalition, and everybody was coordinating. And even as recently as the beginning of the Ukraine war, when they were having monthly meetings to coordinate who was going to send what to Ukraine - that kind of stuff has stopped with the U.S. participation. Europe is still coordinating efforts in Ukraine.

SCHMITZ: And I should mention here that also German media reports are mentioning that tomorrow, Chancellor Friedrich Merz may offer his armed forces to help clear mines in the Strait of Hormuz. We don't know if that's going to happen. This is from a report from the Suddeutsche Zeitung. But according to this report, the catch here is that the U.S. and Iran and presumably Israel need to cease all hostilities before they go forward with this type of plan.

KELLY: That was NPR Berlin correspondent Rob Schmitz. You also heard national security correspondent Greg Myre. We were talking on Sources & Methods. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts.

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