The following is the transcript of the interview with Kevin Hassett, National Economic Council director, that aired on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" on Nov. 9, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We begin this morning with the Director of the White House National Economic Council, Kevin Hassett. This is now the longest shutdown in American history. The treasury secretary told us two weeks ago November 15 was the hard stop for any paychecks going to US troops. Does that remain the point of exhaustion?
KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: Right, I think that- that's about the right number. And the problem is that under the law, we're not allowed to spend money that hasn't been appropriated. And there is a law, the Antideficiency Act, that says that if a government official spends money that isn't appropriated by Congress, which will only happen if the Democrats vote to open up the government, then you could even have criminal penalties. And so people are very carefully studying the law and trying to get as much money out the door as is legal. And we're very glad that we found a way to get a lot of the SNAP money out, but it's really pushing the boundaries of the law, which is why the Supreme Court had to take that ruling from Rhode Island and put it on hold.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Until the lower court rules--
HASSETT: Until the lower court goes back and comes up with a legal justification for what they said, because there probably isn't one, sadly, which is why we have to get this government open. I mean, the fact is Goldman Sachs, they have a top economic team, and they're estimating that we've already knocked about 1.5% off of GDP. I think that number is probably low if we keep going even a couple more weeks, because there's going to be a massive amount of air disruption, especially around the holidays. And one of these things every now and then when we're talking economics, you and I, we talk about seasonal adjustments and things like that. But the fact is that Thanksgiving, that Thanksgiving time, is one of the hottest times of the year for the economy. It's Black Friday, you know, and all that kind of stuff. And if people aren't traveling at that moment, then we really could be looking at a negative quarter for the fourth quarter.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Which is significantly disruptive to the president's agenda. But to the point you were just making about food stamps, and we saw this Friday, a temporary stay by the Supreme Court that would block full food stamp benefits pending the lower court decision. The administration's argument, as you just referenced there, was that it would be illegal to move around funding and to tap the Section 32 account at the USDA. But why not do this as a short term patchwork solution? Because you have found ways with the military pay to stretch things out. Why prioritize in that case and not do so with food?
HASSETT: Well, the president's job, and all of our jobs, is to uphold the law. And when- I'm not a lawyer, but when the lawyers tell us--
[CROSSTALK STARTS]
MARGARET BRENNAN: But are--
HASSETT: what we can do--
MARGARET BRENNAN: -- that wasn't done with the military.
HASSETT: But, but, but yeah, I think that the military is different because of the commander-in-chief stuff. But the legal analysis suggests that we're doing everything by the book, and then stretching things as much as we can, and basically trying to keep people from committing crimes. Which you know, you know about- in the season of lawfare, if you are a cabinet secretary and you spend money that's not appropriated for that purpose in your cabinet, then they can come back and they can take you to court.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you're also making a political bet that Democrats aren't going to challenge paying the military. Do you really think Democrats would challenge and take to court paying people for their food stamp benefits?
HASSETT: Let's just say that we've seen Democrats--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --if, if Congress is going to fund it, when the shut- shutdown ends?
HASSETT: We- we've seen Democrats take to court people that- on really, really poor charges, and so I think they're likely to do anything.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it seems a political calculation is the point.
HASSETT: Well, we, we don't have a political calculation. Our calculation is to get the government open, to get the food stamps to people, and to get people to be paid, 750,000 government workers aren't getting paid right now. I know you're talking to the Governor of Maryland in a minute. I'm sure his people are really hurting. Let's just get the government open, and then let's talk about things like the healthcare premiums, but do that through regular order.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, it sounds like you are saying the position is the same, open the government, then we'll talk about healthcare. But the president, just in the past 36 hours, has put out a number of social media posts. It sounds sort of like he's proposing something in regard to health insurance payments. He said, I'm recommended- to Senate Republicans that hundreds of billions of dollars currently being sent to money-sucking insurance companies to save bad healthcare provided by Obamacare now be sent to the people so they can purchase their own much better healthcare. He also said they should terminate Obamacare. What does this alternative system look like? Because the entire standoff is about healthcare right now.
HASSETT: Right. Well, the president is, you know, a beautiful tactician, a beautiful negotiator--
MARGARET BRENNAN: This is an off--
HASSETT: --And this is- you know, what he said, he's brainstorming and trying to help the Senate come up with a deal that can get the government open. And one of the things you could do is conservatives believe that they don't want the government to micromanage people's lives. And you know, everybody believes that people should have healthcare, and so why not take the people who have higher healthcare premiums and just mail them a check and let them decide? The reason why it could have an effect is that there are multiple tiers under the Affordable Care Act of different types of insurance, and it could be that people would rather have the money and go from like, you know, this kind of plan to that kind of plan and save themselves a little bit. And so that's, that's, you know, basically giving the people an opportunity to make more choices than the government usually lets them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is this the Senator Cassidy proposal?
HASSETT: I'm sure that Senator Cassidy and President Trump talked about it, but whether he agrees with everything that Cassidy- I haven't talked to him about it yet.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, does the Republican leader in the Senate accept--
HASSETT: --The president--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --this proposal?--
HASSETT: -- the president started this idea yesterday, I don't think that it's been discussed widely in the Senate yet.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So the president--
HASSETT: It's the weekend.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --The Senate's in session this weekend--
HASSETT: --Yes, the Senate is in session this weekend and we are--
MARGARET BRENNAN: because they're trying to end the shutdown--
HASSETT: --And here I am.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But this is not the Republican Party's position.
HASSETT: As of right now, it's not the Senate position, but the president thought it was something they should think about.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, he seems to be negotiating before the government's open.
HASSETT: He's talking to his colleagues in the Senate on the Republican side.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you would agree that there does need to be a deal on healthcare, that healthcare costs are too high.
HASSETT: Well, I think that if you look at the Affordable Care Act, these premiums weren't made permanent by the Democrats during the COVID emergency because they're worried about the budgetary costs. And so if you look at the premium increases, they don't affect most people below two times the poverty line, three times the poverty line. But there are a lot of senior citizens that are above, like, around four times the poverty level, which with a husband and wife team would be about 120,000, that are seeing really big premium increases. And I think that everybody's going to want to think about what the next step for that would be, because are seeing- again most people aren't seeing much of an increase at all, but the maximum increases you're seeing could be up to about $500 a month for seniors who have really costly plans.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The president has also been talking about affordability, and our CBS polling shows the president's approval rating on the economy has dipped to 38%, the lowest of this term. 75% of those polled say he's not focusing enough on lowering prices, but the president said this week Democrats are making it up and quote, "every price is down." I'm sure you know the Consumer Price Index showed grocery prices are up nearly 3%, in September from a year ago.
HASSETT: --well--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --Do you dispute that?
HASSETT: Well, actually, let's go through the facts, right? Inflation went up about 5% under President Biden. In President Trump's first eight or nine months, depending where we get the last number, it's up 2.7%. One of the big things that's hurting affordability is mortgages. The interest rate went up by about 4%.
MARGARET BRENNAN: This is grocery prices--
HASSETT: --No, grocery prices are actually down significantly under Trump. But here's the thing--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --but depends on which--
HASSETT: Let me-- I'll just make a point.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.
HASSETT: That if you look at the real reduction in spending power for Americans under Joe Biden, then it went down about $3,000 because we had up to 9% inflation, and then they went to the grocery store, they couldn't buy the things they're used to buying. The real spending power, adjusted for inflation, under President Trump has gone up about $1,200 so far this year. $1,200 is not $3,000, and so people are right to feel stretched, but we're making progress. And if you look at all the positive things about the economy, industrial production just about at an all time high, capital spending about at an all time high, GDP growth right now about 4%, then that shows that the income growth that we need to get more affordability is on the path to happening. And the bottom line is that the last Consumer Price Index surprised down. It was lower than expected, and it would have been even lower because there was a refinery shutdown that caused it to go slightly higher. So we see inflation under control and the economy booming, but we understand 100% why people are still hurting, because we haven't made up all the room that was lost under Joe Biden.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So are you comfortable with 3% inflation?
HASSETT: I'm comfortable with 2% inflation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So no, you're not happy where things are now.
HASSETT: Well, they got to go down a little bit more, but there- but the point is that inflation is like the Queen Mary, my friend Alan Greenspan used to say, so when you go from almost 4% that we had in January down to the mid twos, then that's a trajectory that usually has momentum.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So the St. Louis Fed found tariffs account for half a percentage point of the annual inflation rate. How much do you think the tariffs are hiking prices?
HASSETT: You know, there's a couple of papers out there that say that prices went up by between two tenths and five tenths. And the thing to remember, if those papers are true, is that that's a level adjust, because the tariff goes in, and then the tariff is just there, so it doesn't affect inflation in the future. It would be a one time level adjust. Our estimates at CEA are much closer to zero, and it's all based on modeling and assumptions about elasticities and things. But for the most part, the one way you can see it is you could look at the price of imported goods, and the price of imported goods, CEA put a report out, has actually been declining under tariffs. Because what happens is that the Chinese want to sell us lots of stuff, and there's a tariff, so they cut their prices so that they can still have a larger market share in the US.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Kevin Hassett, always good to have you here. Of course, we have to leave it there for now. We'll be right back in a minute. Stay with us.
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