The following is the transcript of an interview with Dr. Céline Gounder, CBS News medical contributor and KFF editor-at-large for public health, that aired on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" on Aug. 31, 2025.
ED O'KEEFE: We're joined now by Dr. Céline Gounder, CBS News Medical Contributor and the Editor at Large for Public Health at KFF Health News. Doctor, so great to see you. Thanks for coming to Washington for this important conversation. Because it's been a pretty chaotic week at the CDC, to say the least. We've seen the ouster of the head of the agency, who'd only been confirmed by the Senate this summer, she's now mounting a legal challenge to that. Other top officials also departed. They're still reeling from a shooting at the headquarters in Atlanta a few weeks ago. Why are these departures so important to take note of? And how do they affect you, me, and everybody else, in terms of health and medicine?
DR. CÉLINE GOUNDER: I think it's really important to understand that this is not just palace intrigue. This really does affect all of us. So not just the director, but the people in charge of respiratory infections, vaccine safety, the Chief Medical Officer, the person who was in charge of public health data also resigned earlier this week. So these are really key positions. Not to mention that a lot of the directors of the different centers, because it's centers plural, have also been forced out over the last several months. So you're really dealing with a leadership vacuum at the CDC. So, this is not business as usual. And so, specifically, how does this affect you and me, folks watching at home? So, first of all, vaccine policy. Vaccine policy is now being made by political fiat and communicated through social media, rather than a transparent, open, scientific review process. And so, we're seeing the reversal of previous recommendations, which will also confuse whether insurance will cover certain vaccines for certain people, and it's already sowing tremendous confusion at pharmacies, as well as doctor's offices.
ED O'KEEFE: So, there is a series of meetings coming up regarding the future of vaccines and how they're going to be available, who gets them. Tell us about that and the concerns that some of these, now-former CDC officials had about what might happen at those meetings?
DR. GOUNDER: Yeah. So these meetings are scheduled for mid-September. Some of the things on the agenda include the newborn Hepatitis B dose. We typically give it to newborns because that's to prevent transmission from the mother to the baby. So, that's one of the most common ways Hepatitis B is transmitted.
ED O'KEEFE: One of the first shots a baby gets.
DR. GOUNDER: One of the first shots it gets, for good reason. Also protection for infants, for RSV, one of the most common causes of hospitalization among infants. Number three, the COVID shots. And we expect to see a tightening of availability, eligibility of COVID shots, especially for healthy kids and adults. And then, finally, the combined measles, mumps, rubella varicella vaccine, and revisiting long-standing childhood vaccine recommendations would really be unprecedented, here.
ED O'KEEFE: So, it's basically every shot you get from like 0 to 18 is now up for debate, and then the COVID shot, of course, which is an important one for many people on a regular, rolling basis?
DR. GOUNDER:Yeah, some really basic things that we have counted on for a very long time. Some of the core concerns with the process involve cherry-picking of data, scientific reviews being altered or pulled, and unvetted studies being rushed into the process, into policy-making. And this is really an inversion of radical transparency.
ED O'KEEFE: Yeah. There was a- there's an example in recent days, because there- is we're starting- fall is coming, COVID picks up. We've already seen one example of a school in Kansas City that was forced to shut down temporarily due to COVID, and there have been spikes in Arkansas, Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas, especially. What do people at home need to know as the fall approaches and COVID starts to spike?
DR. GOUNDER: Well, I think, first of all, vaccinations are for many different purposes. So it's to prevent severe disease, hospitalization, and death. But, for a lot of people, you may not be able to call in sick from work very easily, like for us, it's really hard to take time off even if you really are sick. You might want to keep your kids in school, and so the best way to keep yourself at work or your kids in school is for them to get vaccinated so you and they are not getting sick.
ED O'KEEFE: Let's- and we should point out, by the way, that school closed, set to open again on Tuesday, but the fact that they had to close at all, right, as the school year is beginning, is a sign, potentially, of things to come when people don't get their shots. Let's bottom line this. I'm a 42-year-old guy with asthma. Am I going to have issues getting my COVID shot?
DR. GOUNDER: You will not, because- even though you're under 65. So the recommendations- or the FDA approval is for people 65 and older, they are all good. They can get their Covid shot. Under 65 if you have at least one risk factor for severe Covid, you can also get your Covid shot. So you can, absolutely. That's not an issue for you, Ed.
ED O'KEEFE: But it's- you know, kids under 18, a perfectly healthy spouse, aging parents?--
DR. GOUNDER: -- Yes, so aging parents over 65 they're eligible. But say you're between 6 months and 64 years of age and you do not have a risk factor for severe COVID. That is the group where we really have a lot of uncertainty. Now, I should point out, pregnancy is a risk factor for severe COVID. So your healthy wife, let's say she were pregnant, which I don't think she is, but if she were, she would be eligible for a COVID shot.
ED O'KEEFE: All right. Dr. Céline Gounder, we love having you to help us understand all this. We appreciate you coming down, good to see you. And we will be right back.
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