Learning to live in a post-American world

In a recent article for Foregin Affairs, Mark Leonard makes that argument that America's leading role in the world order is fading. He discusses his argument with NPR's Danielle Kurtzleben. Transcript DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN, HOST: As President Trump pursues new tariffs and disparages international organizations, a new reality is emerging when it comes to how countries deal with one another and handle conflicts. The world's U.S.-led, rules-based order is fading, and that's a scary fact, given the number of conflicts around the world and major issues that need to be addressed, like climate change. That's the argument Mark Leonard makes in a recent essay in Foreign Affairs. He's the cofounder and director of the European Council on Foreign Relations, and he joins me now from London. Welcome, Mark.MARK LEONARD: Lovely to be with you.KURTZLEBEN: Now you warned that the world's rules-based order is changing. Before we dive into your argument, I want to ask, how would you describe what that world order has looked like and what has been good about it?LEONARD: Well, Henry Kissinger said that world order depended on two things. One is a set of rules which all of the big powers are willing to li...